In Dialogue With: Third World Network
The Treaty Initiative proudly presents Third World Network, a partner organization headquartered in Malaysia involved in issues relating to development, developing countries and North-South affairs.
In a wide-ranging interview with Treaty’s Communications Associate, Brenna Two Bears speaks with Third World Network’s Meena Raman and Evelyn Teh about their lives, passion for the movement, and the broader moral implications of a Treaty.
This is the first of our “In Dialogue With…” series featuring Treaty’s partners around the world.
The transcript of this interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Brenna Two Bears: Thank you all so much [for joining me]. So, the reason I have this job is very personal. I am indigenous to the US, and on all of my tribe’s lands is extraction. All the energy goes to cities far away while my tribes are left with the health and economic consequences. It's our water source that is at risk and it's something that’s important to me.
Can you tell me a little about how you got involved in this work?
Meena Raman: Well compared to your two, I’m somewhat of a fossil myself. I’ve been involved with this for over 30 years. I was trained as a public interest lawyer and got involved with the two organizations that set up Third World Network: the Consumers Association of Penang (like the US Consumer Group that Ralph Nader started in the US) and Friends of the Earth Malaysia.
But my open education and inspiration came from working with grassroots communities- forest people that were displaced for logging companies, timber companies, plantations- displaced out of their land.
And you’re right Brenna. The people who pay the price are the people where the extraction happens. Whether it's the forest, whether it's the oil, whether it's the minerals that are driving today’s economy.
For many of us the frontline communities were paying the price, and this is where the indigenous peoples have a lot to teach us. How to live in the environment, how the ecosystem works, how to respect nature.
It's not mumbo jumbo, but it's knowledge that’s based on generations of science that is just thrown out the window for not being “modern,” “scientific,” but instead [labeled] as people who are primitive.
So when you want to talk about reimagining the whole world, it's not just about fossil fuel phase out. The treaty initiative is a part of a larger global systemic transformation that we see.
Thank you for that Meena, it really resonates. It's a lot of what my elders talk about and what they try to teach us: learning from the land when we gather wild rice, when we hunt the native deer, or anything like that. It's all about finding that balance and trying to stay in harmony with the land and with your surroundings.
Evelyn, would you like to share about what brought you to this work?
Evelyn Teh: I would like to start by saying I draw a lot of inspiration from Meena and Third World Network.
I started off as a marine biologist, so my love for nature came from the sea. It's such a fascinating realm over there. But increasingly I felt that a lot of the conservation work over there is very reactive. It's always about stopping land-based pollution, stopping tourism; so they never end. And that forced me to think that perhaps the battle should start from land.
So I went on to do something on cities. When I study about the cities, it was no longer about the design, the layout, the planning- it was a lot of this embedded political dynamics. A lot [of the work was about] the modern cultures that drive consumerism, that drive investments, profiteering, rent-seeking.
I felt like the fossil fuel is like the blood that keeps pumping through that kind of capitalist vein but which is slowly killing us all. I think it really is high time that there’s a global treaty. At the same time, like Meena, I think there is a huge systemic change which the Treaty leans into.
I felt that through this Treaty, I hope that it would open ways to which we would actively think more about how a new future would look like that doesn’t adopt the old model of things. I’m afraid that we might look as if we had won the battle of stopping fossil fuel but the embedded inequality and displacement is still happening.
I completely agree. It's been really hard to see that happen. This makes me think of my mom, she’s Navajo and on the Navajo reservation, we don’t have running water, or electricity, or roads [in some parts]. Yet there’s coal extraction that’s happening that causes so many problems for my people. It makes it a little hard to look forward to the future and to try and imagine what a future could look like if an initiative like the Treaty went through.
But, Meena, I think I heard you mention it and Evelyn, I heard it a little bit in your answer: could you two try to imagine what a future could look like, and what you would hope to see?
MR: While everything looks a little stark and overwhelming, I think in many of our communities there is hope. And that’s where we seek strength and energy. Like Brenna, you were talking about your people and the difficulties they go through, I think this is where we show solidarity. We feel deeply connected.
For us, it's not a job, it's not a career. It's a life struggle, a compassion and empathy. So when your eyes are open, your heart is open, and your brain is open you begin to connect.
For me, in the last 40 years I've done a lot, trying to leave a better world for the generation to come. For the generation of Evelyn, the generation of Brenna.
That’s so true. That’s so amazing, wanting to be part of the solution and not the problem, and looking ahead for the generations to come. One of my tribes has a saying like that: the seventh generation. Moving through the world, looking ahead seven generations. It's definitely a traditional teaching that has come back in full force as we tackle fossil fuels and extraction in our lands.
Evelyn, would you like to add anything?
ET: Yes, I would like to add something. When I first received your email and saw your name, it was very intriguing. We don’t have anything like that here, and it got me thinking of how it used to be, peoples names, your family after nature. That itself carries a part of history, a relationship and culture. That was very special to know that. And for you to share with us your personal story and struggles with us, I really appreciate that.
That’s what gives me hope.
Hope is the last essence that we have, and we should not let go with that. What strengthens it for me is the connection with different people around the world, hearing their stories, their struggles, and their triumphs (however big or small). That is the kind of drive that kept me going.
Like Meena said, it's not a job - it's a cause, it's a calling.
Once you see the problems you see, you can’t just walk away and pretend that you don’t know it. You can’t go back to your life and live like everyone else. It doesn’t feel right, you can’t live with that.
What I see is challenging the way I live, how I use my time, my resources and my capability in fixing this flawed system. I really love hearing stories of other people and how they are empowered, and I borrow strength from there.
Being part of this global treaty, hearing how people cope and think of different ways to get around this, it feels like you're not alone- like we’re all in this together, and as long as we’re together, we can figure this out. Even on days when you feel hopeless, you’re not alone.
To hear the full conversation with Meena and Evelyn, watch the video interview.
Meena Raman is the Head of Climate Change Programme at Third World Network. She is also a member of the board of Friends of the Earth International and honorary secretary to Friends of the Earth, Malaysia (Sahabat Alam). She has been monitoring and reporting on the negotiations and providing analysis and support both to developing country governments as well as to civil society participants.
Evelyn Teh is the Senior Researcher at Third World Network. She has wide-ranging experience in environmental policy and impact assessment, natural resource management and sustainable development in the context of urban and social studies. With a bachelor of Science in Marine Biology, and two Masters in Environmental Management, and City Design & Social Science, she brings years of experience to the climate movement.